1. When the benos first moved permanently to Gunatit Jyot, Vallabh Vidyanagar, you were going to remain in Bombay. When and how was it decided that you would also stay in Vidyanagar?
It was decided that the benos would live in Vidyanagar and continue their sadhna independently under the guidance of Ba, Ben, Kashiba, Jyotiben, Taraben, Hansaben, Deviben, Maniba and Foi. In order that the benos would not be under anyone s obligation and be able to do their sadhna to attain a high spiritual status, a separate independent trust was established called Gunatit Jyot Mahila Trust. This was registered as a public trust and Gordhankaka, Kaka and I were named as the trustees. However, we would not interfere with the day-to-day matters of the trust, which were to be handled by the benos themselves. From the outset, it must have been Yogiji Maharaj’s intention that I guide the benos in their sadhna to attain purification of the soul. Hence He instigated the segregation of the sanstha to this end. The result of the vimukh prakran was that I had to remain in Vidyanagar to act as a guardian of the benos in worldly and spiritual terms. Thousands of ladies from the Bochasan sanstha made attempts to gain control of Gunatit Jyot, the so called elders of the sanstha were demanding that we send the benos back to their homes and shut down Gunatit Jyot.
I recognised that Bapa was instigating all this in order to test the benos’ conviction, and so I advised them accordingly and remained in Vidyanagar to guide them through this difficult period. The benos were innocent and humble and I felt that their path should also be straightforward. For those who are meek and humble, God makes their sadhna easy and straightforward. Bapa was kind and realised how humble the benos were so He placed me there to guide them. Bapa inspired me so that I would prepare the benos in advance of the test by giving them guidance through spiritual discourses. When the day of the test arrived, the benos were fully briefed and with full confidence and without any hesitation they were able to answer appropriately. For example, they were asked, “What will you do when Babubhai and Dadubhai are no longer present?” To which they replied “We have the strength of our conviction in God and we also have the support and guidance of our superiors such Ba and Jyotiben. Do not concern yourselves”. The parents of the sadhakbenos had given their permission quite happily for them to devote their lives in the service of God. Bapa inspired others, who generally did not have much to do with these benos, claiming to be well wishers and making it their business to come and interfere. This was just a test for the benos. However, the benos had formed a habit of praying constantly together whilst performing mahatmya-yukta seva, which gave them the strength to overcome these tests of lok, bhog, déha and paksh which they passed quite easily. Seeing the benos experience happiness, peace, bliss and a constant state of elation, the world was convinced that the benos were on the right path. The glow of happiness that radiated from the benos was proof enough that they had discovered Parbrahm Purshottam Narayan. Any lay person could recognise this fact and as a consequence Sumaben was the first sadhak sister to join Gunatit Jyot in full splendour and with the consent of her Dada in 1970.
2. Where were you when Bapa instigated the segregation of the sanstha, how did you find out and how did you feel at the time?
From the time when I was in Bombay, Bapa had set up an experimental furnace for the purification of my soul. He instilled within me the belief that he was karta, harta, niyanta, prérak and pravartak. He also instilled in me mahatmya that He would succeed in making all the satsangis murti dharak ékantikos at whatever cost. Through various experiences Bapa had made this belief firm in my intellectual mind. The vimukh prakran was only instigated in 1965; thirteen years after my first meeting with Bapa. Dadubhai believed in Bapa as Pratyaksh Swaroop and insisted that we should all believe in Bapa in this manner. The whole samaj was totally against Dadubhai and right from 1952 had been making attempts to make him an outcast. Everyone was jealous of Dadubhai who always appeared to be enjoying some inner peace and tranquillity due to his beliefs in Bapa. However, Bapa was such a great brahm swaroop that those who came into contact with Him became enlightened and Bapa ensured that their souls were purified through involving them in His great plan. This has been the case for every bhakta in history; for example, the monkey-bhaktas of Rama, Gopis who believed in Krishna, Narsi Mehta and Meera were all frowned upon by the sampraday at the time because they considered the Gods to be pratyaksh. Bapa prevented this from happening in the case of Dadubhai and restrained maya until the santos, benos, yuvakos and grahastos had been prepared and were ready to take over His work. In 1966, when Bapa was assured that His work would continue, He let loose the maya, which resulted in the vimukh prakran. He used His own muktos as instigators of the vimukh prakran and this was the greatest test of all. “Never under any circumstances must one take abhav of a satsangi or relation of Shreeji Maharaj. One is only entitled to do mahatmya yukta seva according to one’s principles and religion”. This principle was being tested by Bapa. P. Kaka, Ba and all those who supported them had been forewarned by Bapa regarding the forthcoming events and these maha-muktos who believed Bapa to be pratyaksh were enlightened through spiritual discourses which prevented them from falling into abhav. All those that were humble were guided such that their minds were not corrupt but full of mahatmya and so they passed these tests with ease. These included muktos such as Popatbhai, Haribhai and mandal, Ramnikbhai and mandal and Saheb and mandal. They all passed and Bapa began to purify their souls.
On the 4th May 1966, I came to Vidyanagar. Dr Swami informed me that a feud had erupted in Gondol and they would not allow us to celebrate Bapa’s birthday in Vidyanagar. From the beginning I had made it a habit never to heed such negative talk. Bapa was the supreme being, who could come in His way? One should not worry but just carry on with the seva. I applied these principles when I was in Bombay and advised my colleagues and friends to do the same. Thus I did not take much notice of the news regarding the vimukh prakran. I just felt that people were doing as they were inspired and I should do as I was inspired. According to this principle I began my seva of guiding the benos in their sadhna and on May 27th or May 29th the vimukh prakran was officially declared at Bochasan.
The news reached Kaka, who at the time was with Saheb at the Vidyanagar Chatralay. Kaka sent Saheb and Bhai to relay the news to me in Prabhu Krupa at one O’clock that afternoon. At the time when the news was broken to me I was resting. I said “Never mind. Let them do as they are inspired. We should continue our sadhna to realise God. We should not do anything in retaliation. Let us continue our sadhna in peace.” In this way, Bapa always paved the way ahead for me and at this time I did not particularly feel anything. I just thought that whatever Maharaj was doing was for the best. “Das na dushman Hari kédi hoi nahi” – God is never the enemy of His humble servants.
3. When you came to Vidyanagar, ‘Maya’ was extremely ferocious and uncontrollable. What did you do to protect the benos?
Maya was wild and totally uncontrollable and it was threatening the total destruction of us all. Just as Gunatitanand Swami has described in Swami-ni-Vatu. The flames of Maya were trying to engulf us from all four sides.
i. I advised the benos to remain within the grounds of Gunatit Jyot.
ii. Only the elder members of Jyot were aware of the situation regarding the vimukh prakran. All others were shielded from this disturbing information as there was no need for them to be alarmed.
iii. Whatever happened I was the first to find out and dealt with it directly from Prabhu Krupa without ever letting it reach the benos. They never found out and there was no need. They might have found out but they always did as I requested and so Bapa protected them. The benos remained submerged in prayers and mahatmya, never getting involved in discussions regarding the segregation or the individual involved in this incident and hence they were never disturbed, or took abhav of anyone, remaining light-hearted and carefree.
Even though I lived outside Jyot, I ensured that nothing ever affected the benos or disturbed them in any way. Through the experiences that Bapa had granted me, I had developed a firm belief that one should lead a life full of mahatmya to ensure that one is not frightened of maya. The benos acted accordingly and found that they were free from any type of disturbances.
4. What are your aspirations for the benos who join Gunatit Jyot and what expectations do you have of them?
Bapa was such a supreme divine Gunatit Satpurush that it was very difficult to comprehend, acknowledge and appreciate Bapa in His true glory. Even after all the experiences of Bapa that I had been through, I could only say that I had a very slight understanding of His greatness, His divinity and of His power. There could be few people who could acknowledge Yogiji Maharaj in His full glory, accept and appreciate this fact without becoming insane. The concept of accepting that God is in the form of a human being (Pratyaksh) is totally beyond the bounds of comprehension for any ordinary person. Such were my understanding and experiences. It was only through Bapa’s grace that I did not become insane. It must have been His intention that I undertake this seva, otherwise I would surely have become insane.
From the beginning it has always been Bapa’s intention that those who choose this path should not encounter any obstacles, they should be able to live their lives without any troubles whatsoever. It became my duty to ensure that they remained free of worries or anxieties. This is Bapa’s great Sankalp and even today, no matter who decides to devote their life to the service of God, I would do everything in my power to help them in this goal. Even if that sadhak does not have any kind of understanding, the fact that he/she has decided to follow this path is the only thing that matters. Considering myself to be only a humble servant in comparison to these great souls who have dedicated their lives to God, I would take whatever actions necessary to encourage and guide them, taking care that they do their sadhnas free of disturbances and reach the stage at which they are totally free of all disturbing egoistic beliefs and enjoy eternal bliss which to my mind is Akshardham peace and joy on earth. I never had any disrespect for any sadhakos or ever insisted that they behave in a certain manner. I always prayed to Bapa to give me strength that I would never disrespect them even when they did not heed my advice. I would continue to care for them and guide them lovingly – regardless of whether or not they did as I asked, I accepted that they were individuals and that they were each independent and God would facilitate their needs. As was proved in the case of Madhuben Kasibhai. After I came to Vidyanagar I constantly experienced the divine presence of Bapa in my life.
My prayers that maya should not be able to penetrate the grounds of Gunatit Jyot under any circumstances were heard by Bapa and he protected us.
There has never been a shortage of wealth, commodities or sevakos. Whenever a requirement of any sort arose, it was filled without any problems.
I prayed to Bapa that the benos who had come to Gunatit Jyot in the hope of attaining a higher spiritual status should succeed in their goal. This has been my sankalp and prayer to Bapa at the temple of Dadar in 1965. Along with my other requests Bapa fulfilled this one as well.
At one time, Bapa had taken it upon himself to become ill. I said to Bapa “You have intentionally made yourself ill because of us. We will do as you ask but we are not happy that you should sacrifice your health for us in this way. Please choose a different method to encourage us to discard our vices and live according to your principles.” Bapa replied “My illness will only last for two more days and as promised Bapa became well again after two days.
The Vimukh Prakran was to aid the process of the purification of the soul. I was well aware of this and the fact that Bapa had instigated it as a direct result of my prayers.
It was a good thing that it happened as and when it did. Although we did not have Bapa’s darshan as he was in the sanstha (and we were not), I was content in the knowledge that His health remained good. He only fell ill again when the elders of the samaj consented.
When sadhakos are on the spiritual path, Bapa will instigate incidents which will reveal their déhabhavs – if at this time the sadhak becomes aggravated and perturbed and feels defeated then I would pray to Bapa to ‘slow down the process and Bapa would ease off by slackening the pace of sadhna. Bapa would allow the sadhna to continue only as long as the sadhak could endure it. There have been many such examples.
5. How do you act towards your own devotees and towards those that Bapa placed under your care and guidance? What steps do you take in order to mould their spiritual characters and ensure progress in their sadhna?
Bapa had especially taught me one thing; one should consider oneself a humble servant and the all others to be divine. One should look at others with a divine vision and towards oneself with a humble vision. Applying this principle to those whom I considered to be my own as Bapa had made me responsible for them, I would teach them to have a humble vision towards themselves as well. I had always controlled my indriyas and antahkarans and remained sincere to Bapa, similarly I insisted on applying the same principles to those whom I considered to be mine – who were a part of me.
From past habit, as a Patidar I had always been strict with myself. I could not tolerate my indriyas and antahkarans not complying with my wishes. In the same manner I was always strict with my devotees until gradually I progressed spiritually, then I started to become more lenient toward them. I tried to be more compassionate and would tell myself that at least the sadhakos were trying – anyway, how could someone with very strong characteristics change so quickly? Thus I remained sympathetic and broad-minded. I tried to follow the 4th and 5th principles of the Vachnamrut G.III.30.
It has always been my nature to quickly finish whatever task I had started and then to contemplate the rest. A similar feeling of impatience was always present when I was doing my sadhna and I marched on with full force and zeal. I have similar aspirations for my devotees; that they too should complete their sadhnas quickly and be able to enjoy the tranquillity, peace and bliss which I was experiencing. Although I was strict to begin with, since 1975 I gradually started to become lenient.
However, I noticed that some of my elder devotees lacked a sense of unity and this disturbed me a great deal. I felt that my devotees should have the same determination as I had to progress and attain the higher spiritual status. I felt that they lacked this enthusiasm and determination and they showed no desire to complete their sadhnas quickly which I felt was my own fault. I felt so saddened by this that I could not allow my birthday celebrations to go ahead and thus on Bhadarva Vad 6(26th September 1975) I cried. Until I could evoke in them a desire and a passion for sadhna, I felt I was not free of this liability. I cried and advised them that they should concentrate on completing their sadhnas, then there would be plenty of time for everything else. However, if one is not sincere in one’s sadhna at this crucial stage then one can become complacent and idle, thus losing the opportunity of acquiring the great virtues of a ‘sadhu’. This was a severe blow to my devotees and they were truly awakened. It had a deep and profound effect on them and stirred a great awareness within them.
In the same way Bapa used my health as an instrument to evoke similar reactions from my devotees. My health was sacrificed on several occasions to reach out to them and make them realise their errors.
In the beginning, Bapa brought ill health to me for my own purification and progression of sadhna as per Vachnamrut G II 25. Even in those difficult times I remained sincere and devoted to Bapa allowing him free reign over my physical body. According to the Vachnamrut G II 62 – when one is standing under the guillotine, or about to be hung and is staring death in the face, if one does not even contemplate praying or asking for one s salvation then one is a true satsangi. This was the quality of mahatmya that Bapa intended me to adopt and He used my body and health as instruments to grant me this understanding. He also gave me strength to endure.
At every point in my life, I always believed that whatever Bapa was doing, was for the best. He was the almighty SUN, and I a mere ray of that sun. Thus I would remain joyful and cheerful. As I had always been straightforward with Bapa, never cunning in my nature, I had experienced peace even during the most turbulent times of my life. Bapa inspired me to think that my body was His body and to allow Him to use it as He wished. I did not worry about it but simply remained happy and in good spirits. I was just content to have Bapa in my life – that was enough.
After that, whenever Bapa made me fall ill or had me subjected to insults, my devotees would be deeply affected and they would begin to introspect. This lead to spiritual progression and actually speeded up the process of their sadhna. Bapa was again using my body as a means of speeding up their purification process. This worked effectively every time as it had during:
My Illness in 1955
My Illness in 1959
My Illness in 1965 (When I had a boil)
My illness in 1978 (Baroda)
On all these occasions my devotees received tremendous spiritual inspiration whilst I was just overjoyed that Bapa had used my body for His work. I could not thank Him enough and was very pleased with the results of these episodes. I told myself the human body is prone to infections and illnesses, irrespective of whether one was in the satsang or not. Bapa had always granted me good health and if He wished for me to be unwell and use my body as an instrument to aid His work – then so be it. I was fortunate that He chose me for this purpose – otherwise what else was my body useful for? I considered myself very fortunate that I could be of service to Bapa albeit in this way.
At present if I notice anything amiss in my devotees (the sadhakos Bapa placed under my guidance) – then I consider it to be an error on my part. I feel that whatever the cause, it is due to a lack of something within me and it is necessary for me to pray to rectify the error. I would determine the exact nature of the error or vice and pray to improve my actions and related deeds. The reflection of my behaviour will then inspire my devotees to acknowledge and accept their mistakes and guide them back on the right path. I am very sure of this fact because I am certain that all the muktos, which have been placed under my care and guidance, are totally sincere.
I have persevered in this way since 1975 and I have been guiding them gently. This has gradually taken effect and still continues to do so.
6. As the present day swaroop, what are your intentions and beliefs?
I do not consider myself a swaroop at all, but first and foremost I consider myself to be a sevak. The seva of caring for and guiding the benos, bhaios and grahastos which Bapa gave me always takes priority over everything else and it is my intention that all of them, without any exceptions should tread this path with perseverance. They should be able to complete their sadhnas without any pain or problem and should be carefree and happy. If they all endeavour to do this then they would immediately experience the joys of Akshardham (inner peace) as quoted in Vachnamrut G III 11. I feel that full advantage should be taken of the sambandh and the swaroop, which are readily available at present. To do this they should:
Endeavour to do mahatmya-yukta seva
Never take part in idle gossip
Never remain disturbed. Try to remain in constant communion with the murti – This will make the sadhna ‘Sadhya Siddh’ – easygoing.
Persevere with the seva whilst tolerating and keeping divyabhav. As long as they are conscious of having to tolerate anything, there is still some element of déhabhavpresent. Thus they must continue with mahatmya-yukta seva. Maharaj will bless them with divine vision to see and accept His ‘leela’.
Seeing the sadhakos happy and carefree makes me content.
7. In our sanstha you have not laid down a specific code of conduct. There are no rules, regulations or any type of customs which must be followed. Why have you not attached any kind of importance to such issues?
Bapa was such a great GunatitSatpurush that He could be equated to the Vadvanad – a fire which remains alight even when it is submerged in water. The Sadguru-A is also just as great. Bapa will ensure that all sadhakos reach this status. When a sadhak finds himself in contact with such a swaroop then there is no need for him to follow any rules, regulations or adhere to any customs. All He needs to do is to constantly remember that swaroop in his full glory (smruti) – this will eventually vanquish all worldly desires, leaving the sadhak with only the desire to serve God. As per Vachnamrut G II 13 – He will not have to persevere to be free of worldly desires, because they will automatically wither away .
Smruti means to act only according to the desires of one’s guru rather than doing what the sadhak would like to do himself. If the sadhak follows Paduben’s principle
of ‘Shyam ni murti ni smruti ma rut rahiyaj karo’ then they would find that they will have conquered everything up to prakruti purush. Mayaben followed this principle and has found that she has reached the end of her sadhna.
The aim of holding regular religious discourses, seminars, shibirs etc. is to reinforce this principle in the minds of every sadhak. It is the intention to instigate circumstances in such a way that even those who are idle and have become apathetic will one day become aware of this principle and start to live accordingly. When redemption of the soul, (kalyan) is only attainable through sadhus such as those described in VachnamrutG III 26 – a sadhak will need to have faith in the satpurush as described in VachnamrutLoya 18, in whatever he says and to strictly live accordingly.
At present, kalyan is easily attainable. No matter what the sadhak does or does not do, as long as he keeps in contact with Jyot and sadguru – his kalyan is guaranteed. At the time of his death Bapa and his guru will give him darshan, submerge his soul in their divine smruti, purify him and then take him to their eternal abode – Akshardham. Kalyan is guaranteed for everyone but sadhna remains to be done only by those who strive to achieve the virtues of God. There are no rules and regulations for those who do not want to become a sadhu, they can relax and enjoy themselves as Akshardham is guaranteed.
8. With what objective in mind have you been organising the frequent trips and regular seminars?
These seminars are arranged with the sole purpose of ensuring that the sadhak forms a natural habit of putting into practice the principle ‘Shyam ni murti ni smruti ma rut rahiyaj karo’, thereby realising peace and bliss.
9. What are your objectives in establishing so many branches of Gunatit Jyot.
The objective is to give the elder swamiswaroops of Jyot an opportunity to work independently to serve God. An opportunity to put their conviction towards God to the test and to affirm their beliefs through experiences. This is to avoid them being secluded. They have taken vows to do the service of God. Hence once they have attained their spiritual goal they must begin to serve God by guiding others in their sadhna.
10. Describe the illness which you endured on 11th July 1978.
As described above it had been my deepest wish that my alauvkik state of mind should not be disturbed. I prayed deeply to Maharaj that no sadhak should be troubled or disturbed. Bapa heard these prayers and used my body by making me fall ill. All the elders were immediately affected and began to pray, and I recovered within three hours. Because the sadhaks had not formed a habit of praying, Bapa instigated such incidents to enable progress of their sadhna. Just as it is impossible for a pauper to harm a prince, it was impossible for kal,karma, and maya to harm us. The sadhaks were aware of all the spiritual knowledge but failed to apply it in their daily lives. Bapa used this opportunity to give them an electric shock and forced them to resort to prayers until it became a habit.
11. Tell us more about the sankalp you made in 1956 in Kapodvadi when you believed Bapa to be PurshotamNarayan.
Ever since I came to Bapa in 1952 I considered him to be the sakshatswaroop of AksharPurshotam and I had no other desire than to serve him. Other great sadhus did not have a great effect upon me and my attitude towards them remained neutral. I remained sincerely only to Bapa. As I was new in the satsang the older satsangis would not acknowledge this, implying that I should not disregard Shastriji Maharaj. Yogiji Maharaj was very different to Shastriji Maharaj hence satsangis found it difficult to adjust to his ways when he succeeded Shastriji Maharaj. Yogiji Maharaj did not allow all the sankalps of the murti dharaks to be fulfilled. He would only allow those which were beneficial to the satsang . If he did allow any to be fulfilled it would only be for a very short period of time but Bapa would make the person aware that it was wrong and would revoke the sankalp. In this way he restrained the murti dharakos from using their powers and therefore he was not very popular. They would say Bapa is great but not as powerful as Shastriji Maharaj. His blessings do not always bear fruit whereas Shastriji Maharaj’s did immediately. Materialistic gains such as wealth or blessings for a son were visible and thus satsangis remained satisfied. The blessings of Yogiji Maharaj were of a different nature; entailing the purification of the soul etc., which were not visible and easily identified.
For example, Bapa did not allow Chandrakantbhai’s desire for a son to be fulfilled. He kept on promising him the son but even after seven years he did not grant him one because it was Chandrakantbhai’s vasna. Bapa knew this and was only protecting him but who else could see this? Bapa would gradually eradicate the vasna by giving the satsangis seva; hence the results were not seen immediately but the soul progressed nonetheless.
The elders of the satsang would try and confuse me and the others by saying that Yogiji Maharaj was SakshatGunatit Swaroop whereas Shastriji Maharaj was the SakshatPurshotam Narayan. In my mind there was no distinction between the two. I believed they were both one and the same and to clarify this I made the sankalp.
In 1956 Yogiji Maharaj would perform his daily puja quite early in the morning and I would go for darshan and sit opposite Bapa. On this occasion I was sitting opposite. It was Swami’s nature to keep his real self hidden from most people. It was his principle that “to remain modest is the ideal”. According to his principle he kept his own swaroop very much concealed. If someone was worthy enough and showed perseverance then Bapa would reveal his true swaroop without any hesitation. In 1952 in Anand during Akhatrij Bapa had given me a straightforward answer regarding Jyotiben because I believed him to be God and not simply a sadhu. Bapa played no tricks with those who sincerely wanted to do their sadhnas.
So that day in Kapodvadi, Bapa was conducting his puja with three rows of thirteen haribhaktos each seated in front of him. One haribhakta came for darshan and brought a platter full of flowers to adorn the idols in Bapa’s puja. Then P. Darbar picked up one flower and adorned Bapa with it. Bapa took the flower and put it down beside the puja as it was considered unholy to use the same flower to adorn Thakorji. He began to take the other flowers and adorn the idols in his puja with them. At that time a thought passed through my mind and I prayed to Bapa (to reveal his real swaroop to me) I said “You are an incarnation of one of the idols in your puja, reveal to me which one it is by adorning the idol with the flower which had adorned you”. Bapa heard my prayers and in a way that the other forty haribhaktas would not notice, he picked up that flower and discreetly placed it in the platter near the other flowers. I had my eyes on it the whole time. Then he quickly picked it up and placed it at the lotus feet of Shreeji Maharaj. I noticed this and was astonished. I had expected Bapa to put it on the idol of Gunantit but he had revealed his true swaroop to me and had confirmed that he was Sakshat Shreeji Maharaj. The full glory of Yogiji Maharaj as Shreeji Maharaj was confirmed in my body and soul and I was elated. Bapa then picked up a few flowers and tied them up in his robe. He sat down, put on his spectacles and began to sign his letters. With a gesture of his hand he beckoned me to come close. He blessed me and gave me the flowers which he had tied in his robe and indicated that I should massage his lotus feet. I was overjoyed and did so as though I was massaging the lotus feet of Shreeji Maharaj himself. From this moment on no matter what anyone said, for me Yogiji Maharaj was Shreeji Maharaj incarnate and I began to live according to this belief.